Talk:Penn Central Transportation Company

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A disastrous prediction

Milton Shapp, the governor of Pennsylvania at the time Penn Central was established predicted that the company would be a disaster. His theory proved correct, as PC filed for bankruptcy within 2 years of its establishment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.5.122.1 (talk) 20:41, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

I know where the 1 million dollars a day figure comes from

I read the book "The Wreck of the Penn Central" recently and I believe that it said that it lost 1 million dollars a day during the Winter of 1970. Unfortunately, I returned it to the library and I do not know the page number, but I felt that it is worth mentioning where that figure comes from. 149.75.204.65 (talk) 23:21, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

This does seem to square with the railroad closed out 1970 with nearly $326 million in deficit which I wrote as part of Bankruptcy of Penn Central and is sourced from George Drury. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 22:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Map

@Gamingcanary: Where are you pulling the data from for the map that was just added? I ask because it's showing the New Haven and Derby Railroad main line as part of the system, but that line was abandoned by 1941. The branch to Collinsville and New Hartford was also abandoned by the time Penn Central took over the New Haven system. There are some other errors as well, it's missing the Slatersville branch in Rhode Island, for instance. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:38, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

Vast majority of the data on the map is from the maps of the PRR, NYC, and NH on their wiki articles. I then manually refined the data according to these two maps: https://www.american-rails.com/images/x7444029498576600423989090000.jpg.pagespeed.ic.fNVlJNH-I-.jpg, and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Penn_Central_lines_affected_by_Hurricane_Agnes.png. If there are errors it's either a problem with those maps, or I just messed up. I think all the things you mentioned are my fault though. I can fix those pretty soon. Gamingcanary (talk) 01:13, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

I fixed all the stuff you mentioned. Gamingcanary (talk) 06:11, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. I do appreciate the effort you put into getting this map put together. It's normal for such a large set of data to have a few errors. The branch to New Hartford still needs to be removed from the map, by the way.

After going through my books, there are some other errors:

• The branch between Housatonic, MA and the NY state line was abandoned by 1963.
• The former Southbridge and Blackstone Railroad should be shown as active between Willimantic and East Windham.
• The spur to Wilsons Point did not go all the way to Wilsons Point by the time Penn Central was formed, it should end near Wilson Avenue.
• The Belle Dock spur to the Port of New Haven is missing. (See Providence and Worcester Railroad map)
• The first ~1 mile of the Middletown Branch out of Middletown is missing. (See P&W map)
• The former Meriden, Waterbury and Connecticut River Railroad is shown active to York Quarry, but when Penn Central assumed control it was reduced to only tracks in Meriden proper.
• The Pontiac Branch Railroad from Cranston to Pontiac is missing.
• The spur line from Warren to East Warren is missing, it was active until 1976.
• The entire Union Freight Railroad is missing.
• The Newton Lower Falls branch is missing.
• The line between Islington and Dedham was abandoned in 1883.
• The Dean Street Industrial Track in Taunton is missing.
• The surviving portion of the New Bedford and Taunton Railroad line from Attleboro Junction to Cranes is missing.
• The segment connecting Stanley and Elmwood should be removed as it was abandoned in 1937.
• The Woods Hole branch should be shown as ending in Falmouth.

This should cover just about everything in Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts. It's a long list, and some of these items are minor, so don't feel obligated to make all these changes. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 22:55, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the list. I was able to fix most of the things on there (I haven't uploaded them yet), but I have a few problems with some of the items:

• The line from Meriden to the quarry is still on USGS maps as of 1970. I would need some sort of source to feel comfortable removing it from the map
• Same with the line from Woods Hole to Falmouth
• I have no idea where Stanley and Elmwood are.
• I'm pretty sure the Union Freight Railroad was a subsidiary, not an official part of the system.

Gamingcanary (talk) 00:50, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

1 and 2 are from The Rail Lines of Southern New England, 2nd edition, by Ronald Dale Karr. From page 91: "The two-mile segment from Meriden to the York Hill Quarry was abandoned in 1969 after having been out of service for at least three years. After this, about three miles remained in service, east and west of the old Meriden station (Quarry Junction), where connection was made with the New Haven & Hartford Line". From page 411: "After passenger service ended on the branch in 1964, the last few miles into Woods Hole saw little traffic, and the line between Falmouth and Woods Hole was abandoned in 1968".

For 3, that was my bad in not being clearer. Those points are along the branch to East Bridgewater, MA. The line diverging at High Street in Stanley and continuing across Oak Street to West Street was abandoned in the 1930s as duplicative trackage since the curve from Westdale to Elmwood Station was shorter.

Regarding point 4, the Union Freight Railroad was a subsidiary so I can see the logic in not adding it to the map. It was shut down in 1970 anyways.

There's also one other missing line I just caught - there should be 1 mile out of Valley Falls, the last piece of the branch to Wrentham. See page 58 here for a source. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 02:13, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

Cool. It should all be updated. Commons is a little slow though so it might take a few hours for it to be visible. Gamingcanary (talk) 03:54, 28 March 2025 (UTC)